英特爾將在中國投資3億美元：這筆資金將用于擴(kuò)大其芯片封裝和測試，并建立一個(gè)客戶解決方案中心
Intel to Invest $300m in China: The money will go toward expanding its chip packaging and testing, and establish a customer solution center
譯文簡介
網(wǎng)友：如果美國支持英特爾，而英特爾又在中國投資，那么是不是可以說美國在中國投資了？
正文翻譯
Intel to Invest $300m in China: The money will go toward expanding its chip packaging and testing, and establish a customer solution center
英特爾將在中國投資3億美元：這筆資金將用于擴(kuò)大其芯片封裝和測試，并建立一個(gè)客戶解決方案中心
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If US backs intel and intel invests in China => US invests in China?
如果美國支持英特爾，而英特爾又在中國投資，那么是不是可以說美國在中國投資了？
Wtf
臥槽
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What's there to wtf us hasn't even given Intel any money yet they are pissed.
Look at tsmc Japan literally gave them 30 billy and USA out here promise coupons 8 billy
有什么好大驚小怪的，美國還沒給英特爾錢呢，他們就已經(jīng)不高興了。
你看看臺積電，日本可是真金白銀給了他們300億美元，而美國這邊只是空口承諾了80億。
and then US charges tariffs on the goods it manufactured in china
然后美國還對中國制造的商品征收了關(guān)稅。
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Someone who’s more familiar can hopefully enlighten me, but isn’t one of the conditions to receive funds from the chip act is the limit further investment in China?
有沒有人能給我解釋一下，接受芯片法案資金的一個(gè)條件是不是限制在中國進(jìn)一步投資？
What's Uncle Sam gonna do?
山姆大叔會怎么做？
I mean... AMD does exist
我認(rèn)為AMD也存在這種舉動。
Who builds AMD chips? Not AMD.
誰在制造AMD的芯片？不是AMD自己。
Good thing TSMC has a chip manufacture in AZ.
幸好臺積電在亞利桑那州有芯片制造廠。
Still won’t happen. The government is not going to trust a foreign company with access to their top secret reticles .
但這種情況還是不會發(fā)生。政府不可能信任一個(gè)外國公司，并讓他們接觸到他們的頂級機(jī)密的。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://nxnpts.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
Some dude got an inheritance from his grandmother of $700000 and put it all on Intel. Right before it tanked from 32 ish down to 18 iirc.
有個(gè)家伙從他祖母那里繼承了70萬美元，他把全部的錢都投在了英特爾股票上——我記得就在它從大約32美元跌到18美元之前。
Damn is that dude still alive?
那家伙還活著嗎？
You’re not regarded enough to be here, get out while you still can
你在這里的地位還不夠高，趁早滾吧
It has exceptions for foundry OSAT and packaging.
它對晶圓代工OSAT和封裝有例外。
not sure if there is such stipulation.
tsm is also a recipient of the chip act. i'm sure that didn't stop tsm from providing its foundry service to china.
不確定是否有這樣的規(guī)定。
臺積電也是芯片法案的受益者。我相信這并沒有阻止臺積電為中國提供其代工服務(wù)。
There definitely is. Or maybe intels planned investment in China doesn’t involved advanced tech that would be of concern.
肯定有?；蛟S英特爾計(jì)劃在中國的投資不涉及那些引起關(guān)注的先進(jìn)技術(shù)。
i believed the investment falls under "existing facility".
我現(xiàn)有這筆投資屬于“現(xiàn)有設(shè)施”。
Further proof that corporations will literally never try to help Americans. Lol
這進(jìn)一步證明了公司永遠(yuǎn)不會真正試圖幫助美國人，呵呵。
According to the roasting before congress, the pot of money that Intel is investing in China and the pot of money intel uses from Gov are different and therefore it’s okay.
根據(jù)國會之前的質(zhì)詢，英特爾在中國投資的資金和英特爾從政府那里使用的資金是分開的，因此這是可以接受的。
It may be, but they’ll still be testing products made with US taxpayer money in a nation that is intent on stealing technology.
這也許是事實(shí)，但他們還是會在中國這個(gè)致力于Q取技術(shù)的國家，用美國納稅人的錢來測試產(chǎn)品。
In my experience, any type of testing of products made with US taxpayer money will be done by Americans. The development pipelines should be completely separate from regular corporate Intel. I can't promise that those Americans involved in testing will not have alignment with China. But in my opinion, AI, especially with national security implications, should be held in the cleared space.
根據(jù)我的經(jīng)驗(yàn)，使用美國納稅人資金制造的產(chǎn)品的測試工作應(yīng)該由美國人來執(zhí)行。這些開發(fā)流程應(yīng)當(dāng)與英特爾公司的日常業(yè)務(wù)完全隔離。我不能確保參與測試的美國人不會與中國有某種聯(lián)系。但在我看來，特別是那些涉及國家安全的人工智能技術(shù)，應(yīng)該在經(jīng)過安全審查的空間內(nèi)進(jìn)行。
Are there any incentives for Intel to use China for testing products that would be designed and intended to be made and kept in the US only?
英特爾有沒有動機(jī)在中國測試那些本應(yīng)只在美國設(shè)計(jì)、制造和保留的產(chǎn)品呢？
Why intel is shooting in the foot?
為什么英特爾要自傷？
Kinda intels thing.
這是英特爾自己的事。
Up until August US was still buying Russian refined uranium fuel. It’s all about the money while they tell the mass it’s about democracy. lol.
MIC had spent trillions in afghan and Iraq. You think they’ll just stop spending ? No they stopped because Ukraine was going to start. All budget planned ahead of time.
直到八月，美國還在購買俄羅斯提煉的鈾燃料。這都是錢的問題，他們卻告訴公眾這是關(guān)于民主的。哈哈。
軍方曾在阿富汗和伊拉克花費(fèi)了數(shù)萬億美元。你認(rèn)為他們會停止花錢嗎？不，他們停下來是因?yàn)槟菚r(shí)候，烏克蘭戰(zhàn)爭即將開始，所有預(yù)算都是提前計(jì)劃好的。
Intel hasn’t received a cent from the CHIPS ACT
英特爾還沒有從芯片法案中得到任何資金
One presidential candidate sounding more correct all of a sudden, CHIPS act is just another highway robbery with little to show for the effort.
某位總統(tǒng)候選人的話，突然間聽起來更加有道理了，芯片法案不過是又一次公然的掠奪，付出努力卻收獲甚微。
Yes, we already give China billions and China gives billions to us.
Google globalization
是的，我們已經(jīng)給了中國數(shù)十億美元，中國也給了我們數(shù)十億美元。
搜索下全球化吧。
Globalisation is deteriorating, the US is restricting supply of the most powerful GPUs to China and focusing on investing in domestic production, China is literally saying they're taking control of Taiwan by 2027, measures have been taken incase that turns out to be true, that's why this is surprising.
全球化趨勢正在衰退，美國不僅限制向中國出口最尖端的圖形處理器（GPU），還在大力投資本國的生產(chǎn)。中國實(shí)際上已經(jīng)表明，他們計(jì)劃在2027年之前取得對臺灣（地區(qū)）的控制權(quán)。為此，已經(jīng)采取了一些應(yīng)對措施以防這一聲明成為現(xiàn)實(shí)，這也正是為何當(dāng)前的情況令人感到意外的原因。
China has never explicitly declared they are starting war in 2027, stop with that bs lol.
Their goal is to be able to have that option by 2027, which is very different from having a countdown timer to war.
中國從未明確聲明他們將在2027年發(fā)動戰(zhàn)爭，別胡說八道了，哈哈。
他們的目標(biāo)是到2027年能夠擁有這個(gè)選項(xiàng)，這與有一個(gè)倒計(jì)時(shí)戰(zhàn)爭的計(jì)時(shí)器是非常不同的。
FYI: https://www.reuters.com/technology/tsmc-halts-chip-supply-customer-after-finding-it-huawei-product-source-says-2024-10-23/
Helping(directly or indirectly) China with chips is a... dubious ....position to be in today if you're a US company
供你參考：https://www.reuters.com/technology/tsmc-halts-chip-supply-customer-after-finding-it-huawei-product-source-says-2024-10-23/
如果一家美國公司（直接或間接）幫助中國獲得芯片，這是一個(gè)……可疑……的立場。
This is actually a good way to keep China in check.
這實(shí)際上是一個(gè)控制中國的好方法。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://nxnpts.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請注明出處
They had this exact question asked to them by Congress. Intel stating they not using chip act funding for it. Congress responded then why you need chip sct funding if you can invest into another country and also bring up how chip avt was ment to move these linds of productions out of China and Taiwan. Intel had no good answers besides stating they been doing it for years now.
他們在國會上被問到過這個(gè)問題。英特爾表示他們不會使用芯片法案的資金來做這件事。國會隨后問，如果你可以在另一個(gè)國家投資，為什么還需要芯片法案的資金，還提到芯片法案的目的是將這些生產(chǎn)從中國和臺灣（地區(qū)）轉(zhuǎn)移出去。英特爾除了說他們已經(jīng)這樣做了很多年之外，沒有給出更好的答案。
大約一個(gè)月前：
鏈接：https://youtu.be/2G7onHVEEvU?si=dbwPaAjy_9pgQ7FX
標(biāo)題：Hawley Exposes Intel Corp. Exec For Investing Billions In China But Not Condemning Its Slave Labor
霍利曝光英特爾公司高管在中國投資巨額資金，卻未對其奴役勞工行為予以譴責(zé)。
大約兩年前芯片法案開始：
鏈接：https://www.youtube.com/live/yPB79ZpZiHc?si=NuoRy7oxtjN_WjRm
標(biāo)題：Intel, Micron CEOs testify before Senate on semiconductor chips manufacturing
英特爾和美光科技的CEO在參議院就半導(dǎo)體芯片制造問題發(fā)表證詞。
“Congressman, the chip act funding is going to the made-in-usa popcorn machines in the lunch room to boost productivity. The rest we fund raise from Chinese QE investors and the money can only go to china. The accounting works out.”
“國會議員，芯片法案的資金將用于美國制造的午餐室爆米花機(jī)，以提高生產(chǎn)力。其余的我們從中國量化寬松投資者那里籌集資金，而且這些錢只能去中國，會計(jì)工作是可行的?！?/b>
Congress is dumb af. We are trying to build supply chains. Intel has not received a single dollar from the chips act. But the government wants intel to cancel a deal intel has been working on for years bc… congress wants the good pr?
Intel is a company that needs to stay competitive, the usa has not done shit with chips act yet. They are a bunch of grandstanding clowns. The government still has not given a dollar to intel, why should intel hurt themselves?
國會真是愚不可及。我們正在努力構(gòu)建供應(yīng)鏈，但英特爾還沒有從芯片法案中得到任何資金。然而，政府卻希望英特爾放棄一個(gè)已經(jīng)進(jìn)行了多年的交易，只因?yàn)椤瓏鴷胍粋€(gè)好的公關(guān)效果？
英特爾是一家需要保持競爭力的公司，美國至今還沒有通過芯片法案采取任何實(shí)際行動。他們不過是一群只會夸夸其談的小丑。政府連一分錢都沒給英特爾，英特爾為什么要損害自己的利益？
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Intel has preliminary agreements for like $8.5b in direct funding and $11b in loans from the chips and science act though. It's not that illegitimate of a question
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/newsroom/news/us-chips-act-intel-direct-funding.html
英特爾已經(jīng)從芯片和科學(xué)法案中獲得了大約85億美元的直接資金和110億美元的貸款的初步協(xié)議，所以，這個(gè)問題并不是那么不合法。
DoTheThing_Again
It’s illegitimate bc they already know the why. It is Bc it makes business sense, and intel has been working on these plans for years.
And furthermore “preliminary” does not pay the bills
這是不合法的，因?yàn)樗麄円呀?jīng)知道為什么。這是因?yàn)檫@在商業(yè)上是有意義的，英特爾已經(jīng)計(jì)劃這些計(jì)劃好多年了。
而且只是“初步達(dá)成協(xié)議”，并沒有支付這筆錢。
It made business sense years ago, it no longer does.
And we are all aware you are posting this with a 9 day old account.
幾年前在商業(yè)上是有意義的，現(xiàn)在不再有意義了。
我們都知道你是用一個(gè)9天前創(chuàng)建的賬戶發(fā)布這則評論的。
Well yes, my account is new. And ur point is….
是的，我的賬戶是新注冊的，你想說什么？
It means you’re arguing with people about facts of the CHIPS Act and how it pertains to investment in China and you have a brand new account.
這意味著你正在和人們討論芯片法案的具體內(nèi)容以及它如何涉及到在中國的投資，而你的賬戶是剛剛注冊的。
It's not about hurting Intel, it's about making sure that American taxpayers aren't footing the bill for an unimaginably expensive technological infrastructure development program that never actually materializes
You know, like we've already done many times before:
Here's a free copy of the latest book, "The Book of Broken Promises: $400 Billion Broadband Scandal & Free the Net", which we put up a few weeks ago because few, if anyone actually bothered to read how the calculations were done. They were based on the telco's annual reports, state filings, etc.-- and the data is based on 20 years of documentation-- Bruce Kushnick http://irregulators.org/bookofbrokenpromises/
這并不是要損害英特爾的利益，而是要確保美國納稅人不需要為一個(gè)從未真正落實(shí)的、極其昂貴的技術(shù)基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施發(fā)展項(xiàng)目承擔(dān)費(fèi)用。
你們知道的，之前出現(xiàn)很多次這種情況：
這是我們幾周前發(fā)布的最新書籍《破碎的承諾：4000億美元寬帶丑聞與網(wǎng)絡(luò)自由》，提供免費(fèi)下載。很少有人去閱讀這些數(shù)據(jù)是如何計(jì)算出來的。這些數(shù)據(jù)基于電信公司的年報(bào)、州備案文件等，并且這些資料是基于20年的文件記錄?！剪斔埂焓材峥?http://irregulators.org/bookofbrokenpromises/
自1991年宣布光纖部署計(jì)劃，即所謂的“信息高速公路”以來，我一直在追蹤電信公司在這方面的進(jìn)展。原計(jì)劃是讓美國成為首個(gè)全面采用光纖的國家——電話公司們紛紛向州委員會和立法機(jī)構(gòu)申請稅收優(yōu)惠和費(fèi)率上調(diào)，以資助這些本應(yīng)將舊銅線替換為光纖的“公用事業(yè)”網(wǎng)絡(luò)升級工程，這項(xiàng)工作從1992年開始。然而，這一切都是一個(gè)騙局。作為一名前高級電信分析師，我的客戶就是這些電信公司，我意識到他們提交了虛假的成本模型，并編造了部署計(jì)劃。
1998年，我出版了第一本書《未授權(quán)傳記》，由以太網(wǎng)網(wǎng)絡(luò)的共同發(fā)明者鮑勃·梅特卡夫博士作序，書中講述了這段歷史。2005年，我發(fā)布了《2000億美元寬帶丑聞》，詳細(xì)說明了到那時(shí)美國超過一半的地區(qū)本應(yīng)完成寬帶建設(shè)，但實(shí)際上并未實(shí)現(xiàn)。同時(shí)，公司間的合并本應(yīng)帶來寬帶服務(wù)的提升，但同樣沒有實(shí)現(xiàn)。2015年，我更新了這本書，名為《破碎承諾之書：4000億美元寬帶丑聞與網(wǎng)絡(luò)自由》，意識到除了這些問題，還存在其他欺詐行為，比如會計(jì)賬目的操縱。
https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/6c5e97/eli5_how_were_isps_able_to_pocket_the_200_billion
Almost everyone in the US should have fiber internet by now, but we're still comparatively stuck in the dark ages because companies like Intel took federal funding and then continued on with business as usual.
The possibility of Intel doing something similar is an extremely serious issue, and it can't be allowed to happen again.
我們?yōu)榧彝セ驅(qū)W校升級到光纖網(wǎng)絡(luò)支付了大約九次費(fèi)用，卻沒有任何可見的成果——每戶大約花費(fèi)了4000到7000美元（這個(gè)數(shù)字會根據(jù)不同的州和電信公司有所變化）。到了2017年，總花費(fèi)已經(jīng)超過了5000億美元。
美國幾乎每個(gè)人都應(yīng)該已經(jīng)接入了光纖互聯(lián)網(wǎng)，但由于像英特爾這樣的公司接受了聯(lián)邦資金后卻繼續(xù)按照常規(guī)經(jīng)營，我們?nèi)匀幌鄬μ幱谛畔r(shí)代的落后階段。
英特爾可能會重復(fù)類似的行為，這是一個(gè)極其嚴(yán)重的問題，我們不能再容許這種情況再次發(fā)生。
Those companies should be nationalized until they install that fiber. Fuckem and the shareholders. Criminals.
那些公司應(yīng)該被收歸國有，直到他們鋪設(shè)好光纖網(wǎng)絡(luò)。讓那些股東和犯罪分子見鬼去吧，都是些犯罪分子。
Those were not “companies like intel”. Internet is ran as a local monopoly to fund municipalities that use public government lines of access. The economics of that versus factory fabs are literally nothing alike. Fabs are more like cars factories than like verizon fios.
那些并不是“像英特爾那樣的公司”?；ヂ?lián)網(wǎng)業(yè)務(wù)通常由地方壟斷企業(yè)運(yùn)營，這些企業(yè)利用公共政府的線路來提供服務(wù)。這與工廠，尤其是半導(dǎo)體制造廠的經(jīng)濟(jì)模式完全不同。半導(dǎo)體制造廠更像是汽車工廠，而不是像Verizon Fios那樣的互聯(lián)網(wǎng)服務(wù)提供商。
They ran it near me, across teh 4 lane highway into the bad neighbor hoods, so it could all be subsidized, cox is the only cable player here and it's at&t orange wires.
他們把線路鋪在我附近，穿過四車道的高速公路，進(jìn)入那些不太友好的社區(qū)，這樣所有費(fèi)用都能得到補(bǔ)貼。Cox是這里唯一的有線電視供應(yīng)商，而且它用的是AT&T的橙色線路。
Intels never received government money in any way, shape or form?
英特爾從未以任何形式收到過政府資金嗎？
I am speaking for the chips act. Outside of that yeah it has received money from the government for selling cpus to them among other things
我說的是芯片法案。除了法案之外，英特爾確實(shí)因?yàn)橄蛘N售CPU等事項(xiàng)從政府那里獲得過資金。
Senator that does not understand business
參議員不懂商業(yè)。
have they already received any money from the government?
他們已經(jīng)從政府那里收到錢了嗎？
They will finance it with loans in the mean time with the hope the gov covers the China investment loan.
與此同時(shí)，他們會用貸款來融資，希望政府能覆蓋在中國的投資貸款。
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Sir that’s the only reason they even exist as a company is courtesy of the US government
先生，他們作為公司存在的唯一原因就是美國政府的恩賜。
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could you give me a lix, that they already got the money?
你能給我一個(gè)鏈接嗎，證明他們已經(jīng)拿到了錢？
Are you asking me to provide you a lix to prove to you that intel has received US government subsidies? I just want to clarify.
我只想確認(rèn)一下：你是在讓我提供一個(gè)鏈接，證明英特爾已經(jīng)收到了美國政府的補(bǔ)貼嗎？
yes please.
wasnt able to findy any, that says they already got the money paid out.
是的，請?zhí)峁Ｎ艺也坏饺魏物@示他們已經(jīng)收到付款的鏈接。
I will use something more recent. The CHIPS Act, which was passed in 2022, allocated $52 billion for semiconductor manufacturing and research, with Intel being one of the primary beneficiaries. This is where they expressed interest in expanding to Ohio and got the funding to develop. The company has also received various forms of government support, including subsidies, tax incentives, and grants aimed at promoting semiconductor manufacturing and research in the United States. In 2017, Intel was awarded $39 million in tax incentives from the state of Arizona to expand its manufacturing facilities in the state. Intel has also participated in various government-funded research initiatives. For instance, the National Science Foundation (NSF) which has funded research projects in collaboration with Intel to advance semiconductor technology and innovation. Intel has received contracts from the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) for research and development in semiconductor technology, particularly for applications related to national security. Intel has also benefited from federal and state tax credits aimed at encouraging investment in research and development (R&D) and manufacturing. The federal R&D tax credit has been a significant incentive for Intel and other tech companies.
我會提供一些最新的信息。2022年通過的《芯片與科學(xué)法案》（CHIPS Act）為半導(dǎo)體制造業(yè)和研究領(lǐng)域撥款了520億美元，英特爾是主要受益者之一。正是這一法案，讓英特爾對擴(kuò)展到俄亥俄州的業(yè)務(wù)表示了興趣，并獲得了相應(yīng)的開發(fā)資金。此外，英特爾還獲得了多種形式的政府支持，包括補(bǔ)貼、稅收優(yōu)惠和旨在推動美國半導(dǎo)體制造業(yè)和研究的補(bǔ)助金。2017年，英特爾從亞利桑那州獲得了3900萬美元的稅收優(yōu)惠，用于擴(kuò)大其在當(dāng)?shù)氐闹圃煸O(shè)施。英特爾還參與了多個(gè)由政府資助的研究項(xiàng)目。例如，國家科學(xué)基金會（NSF）與英特爾合作資助的研究項(xiàng)目，旨在推進(jìn)半導(dǎo)體技術(shù)和創(chuàng)新。英特爾還從美國國防部獲得了半導(dǎo)體技術(shù)研發(fā)合同，特別是那些與國家安全相關(guān)的應(yīng)用。英特爾也從聯(lián)邦和州政府提供的研究與開發(fā)（R&D）以及制造業(yè)稅收抵免中受益。聯(lián)邦研發(fā)稅收抵免對英特爾和其他科技公司來說，是一個(gè)重要的激勵(lì)措施。