網(wǎng)友討論：印度可以通過(guò)逆向工程制造出陣風(fēng)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)嗎？
Can India make Rafale jets after doing reverse engineering?
譯文簡(jiǎn)介
逆向工程是一件復(fù)雜的事情。是的，你可以復(fù)制形狀和內(nèi)部構(gòu)件。雖然簡(jiǎn)單的東西——玩具、衣服和一些器具，很容易做到，但當(dāng)你試圖復(fù)制高級(jí)和復(fù)雜的東西時(shí)，還涉及到許多其他問(wèn)題。
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This Reverse Engineering Business is HIGHLY EXAGGERATED
Its one thing to reverse engineer a Tubelight or a Toy Helicopter.
Its next to impossible to Reverse Engineer a Su-35 or a Rafale. In fact it would require far more talent to reverse engineer these specs than to learn the concepts and do the entire thing from scratch.
Maybe the Design can be copied but there are too many things in an aircraft and its just impossible to split it open and reverse engineer.
Its the same as taking a Coca Cola Drink- reverse engineering the chemicals and percentage and developing Boca Cola. It would be easier to use your own mix of chemicals and improvise till you get a good taste.
Many Experts refute this Reverse Engineering and one Designer of Lockheed Martin - a Top Aircraft Company says Its Impossible to reverse engineer a Fighter. It would cost you more effort and you would need to be far more skilled than to be able to create your own fighter.
【回答】工作人員甄選委員會(huì)聯(lián)合研究生水平考試 顧問(wèn)和導(dǎo)師(2021年-至今)
這種逆向工程被高度夸大了。
對(duì)燈管或者玩具直升機(jī)進(jìn)行逆向工程是一回事。
對(duì)蘇-35或陣風(fēng)進(jìn)行逆向工程幾乎是不可能的。事實(shí)上，對(duì)這些規(guī)格進(jìn)行逆向工程需要的人才遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)多于從零開(kāi)始學(xué)習(xí)概念和完成整件事的人才。
也許設(shè)計(jì)可以被復(fù)制，但是飛機(jī)上的東西太多了，不可能把它拆開(kāi)或者進(jìn)行逆向工程。
這就好比拿一瓶可口可樂(lè)對(duì)其化學(xué)成分和比例進(jìn)行逆向工程，然后開(kāi)發(fā)博卡可樂(lè)一樣。使用你自己配制的化學(xué)成分，然后即興發(fā)揮，直到你嘗到好味道為止，這會(huì)更容易一些。
許多專家也反駁了逆向工程這說(shuō)法，洛克希德·馬丁公司的一位設(shè)計(jì)師說(shuō)，要逆向一架戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)是不可能的。這會(huì)花費(fèi)你更多的精力，而且你需要比制造自己的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)更多的技能。
The bottom line is Reverse Engineering is not so easy and is literally impossible for more advanced designs like Engines or Airfrxs or Wingtips or Control Guidance Systems.
I think China just likes the world to think they reverse engineer when in reality i think they send students, learn the fundamentals, try, try and try and finally succeed.
Sure people say the Chinese J-20 looks same as the Raptor etc etc but frankly there are not too many Aerodynamic designs in the world. All Airplanes look vaguely similar to each other.
如果有那么容易，每個(gè)人都會(huì)這么做了。我的意思是，以色列人同樣有天賦，那么，他們可以很容易制造自己的F-22猛禽戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。新加坡可以制造自己的F-18。而我們也可以制造自己的法拉利。
歸根結(jié)底，逆向工程不是那么容易，而且對(duì)于更先進(jìn)的設(shè)計(jì)，比如發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)、機(jī)身、翼尖或者控制導(dǎo)航系統(tǒng)，幾乎是不可能的。
我認(rèn)為中國(guó)只是喜歡世界以為他們?cè)谶M(jìn)行逆向工程，而實(shí)際上，我認(rèn)為他們是派送學(xué)生，學(xué)習(xí)基礎(chǔ)，嘗試，嘗試，再嘗試，最后獲得成功。
當(dāng)然有人說(shuō)中國(guó)的J-20看起來(lái)和猛禽等一樣，但是坦白地說(shuō)，世界上沒(méi)有太多不同的空氣動(dòng)力學(xué)設(shè)計(jì)。所有的飛機(jī)看起來(lái)都差不多。
Even an Architect who copies a design has to get the entire schematics to do the structural engineering. Just give the Architect the design of a building and he simply cannot redesign the building unless he has an unlimited budget. For instance a Brunei Sheikh who wanted a Replica of the White House found his bill would be $ 8.25 Billion which is far more than the White House is valued today
This is because the engineers and architects will have to keep trying various combos and many of them will fail and they have to demolish and start again.
舉一個(gè)簡(jiǎn)單的事情：設(shè)計(jì)一架戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的機(jī)翼需要75000個(gè)參數(shù)。75000個(gè)參數(shù)啊。所以你能想象對(duì)機(jī)翼進(jìn)行逆向工程？？？
即使是建筑師復(fù)制一個(gè)設(shè)計(jì)，也必須得到整個(gè)結(jié)構(gòu)圖來(lái)做好結(jié)構(gòu)工程。只是給建筑師一個(gè)建筑設(shè)計(jì)，他根本無(wú)法簡(jiǎn)單地重新設(shè)計(jì)這建筑物，除非他有無(wú)限的預(yù)算。例如，一位文萊酋長(zhǎng)想要一座白宮的復(fù)制品，結(jié)果他發(fā)現(xiàn)賬單將達(dá)到82.5億美元，這遠(yuǎn)遠(yuǎn)超過(guò)今天白宮的估價(jià)。
這是因?yàn)楣こ處熀徒ㄖ煴仨毑粩鄧L試各種組合，其中會(huì)面臨許多失敗，他們不得不拆除，然后重新開(kāi)始。
Abhijeet Singh
There is something, which is called Intellectual Property Law.
A company does it, faces million dollar law suit.
A sovereign nation does it, faces sanctions from UN.
China can do it, because its a permanent member of the UN security council.
As simple as that!
【回復(fù)】有一種東西，叫做知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)法。
一家公司做了，就會(huì)面臨百萬(wàn)美元的法律訴訟。
一個(gè)主權(quán)國(guó)家做了，就會(huì)面臨聯(lián)合國(guó)的制裁。
就這么簡(jiǎn)單！
If I have to search keys in my own house, it takes me a few seconds max. Where I would keep the keys, is based on my experience and instances where I got locked out and when I had no key. So the key has to be hidden but at the same time be accessible.
Does my friend who lives in another house know this? No. Obviously where I keep my keys, is based on my experience and is very unique to me.
The same goes with design. People tend to underestimate the thought that goes behind design.
What prompted the manufacturer to fasten a rivet at Point A, no one from the outside knows. But whoever was in the design team, knows. It could have been a lesson from an expensive mistake in development. It could have costed several hundreds of man hours.
【回復(fù)】如果我必須要在我自己的房子里找鑰匙，最多只需要幾秒鐘。我會(huì)把鑰匙放在哪里，是基于我的經(jīng)驗(yàn)，以及我被鎖在外面沒(méi)帶鑰匙的例子。所以，鑰匙一定是藏起來(lái)，但同時(shí)又是基本接近的。
我住在另一棟房子的朋友會(huì)知道這些嗎？不會(huì)。顯然，我把鑰匙放在哪里，是基于我的經(jīng)驗(yàn)，對(duì)我來(lái)說(shuō)是非常獨(dú)一無(wú)二的。
設(shè)計(jì)也是如此，人們往往低估了設(shè)計(jì)背后的思想。
是什么促使制造商將鉚釘固定在 A 點(diǎn)上，外界沒(méi)有人知道。但是設(shè)計(jì)團(tuán)隊(duì)中的任何人都知道。這可能是開(kāi)發(fā)過(guò)程中一個(gè)代價(jià)高昂的錯(cuò)誤帶來(lái)的教訓(xùn)。這可能需要花費(fèi)幾百個(gè)工時(shí)。
Considering the deeds of UN member of security council, which ranges from War on Iraq on rumours of WMD, to plundering of Yemen, and dozens of Sanctions on Iran - IP theft is still a non-violent one.
Why else do you think, India is deperate to be part of that club.
【回復(fù)】考慮到聯(lián)合國(guó)安理會(huì)成員國(guó)的行為，從對(duì)伊拉克的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)到大規(guī)模殺傷性武器的謠言，到對(duì)也門的掠奪，以及對(duì)伊朗數(shù)十項(xiàng)制裁，知識(shí)產(chǎn)權(quán)盜竊的行為仍然是非暴力的一種。
否則你認(rèn)為為什么印度不顧一切想成為這個(gè)俱樂(lè)部的一員。
Add to that saving terrorists, again and again, Every time India tries to make a case against Pakistan there is one nation that will stop India.
【回復(fù)】再加上拯救恐怖分子，一次又一次，每次印度打算對(duì)巴基斯坦提出控訴，總有一個(gè)國(guó)家會(huì)阻止印度。
India have to catch-up smartphone manufacturering Is not joke majority of European nations still can't Manufacture whole smartphone ..
No one will transfer the technology , I repeat no one will tell you Trade secrets of trillion dollars industry..
【回復(fù)】印度必須迎頭趕上智能手機(jī)制造業(yè)，這不是開(kāi)玩笑，大多數(shù)歐洲國(guó)家仍然無(wú)法制造整部智能手機(jī)...
沒(méi)有人會(huì)轉(zhuǎn)讓技術(shù)，我再說(shuō)一遍，沒(méi)有人會(huì)告訴你萬(wàn)億美元工業(yè)的商業(yè)秘密。
The famous architect Frank Lloyd Wright left behind a finite number of iconic residences before he passed away. Several architects have reported that clients desire Wright-like designs or even imitations of his work.
What they don't understand is that each unique Wright design was tailored to the geography of its building site and the client's particular requirements.
Wright himself was opposed to standard designs, or variations thereof, being imposed on a setting without taking in considerations dictated by the site itself.
【回復(fù)】著名的建筑師弗蘭克·勞埃德·賴特，在去世前留下了為數(shù)不多的標(biāo)志性住宅。一些建筑師報(bào)告說(shuō)，客戶想要賴特式的設(shè)計(jì)，甚至是模仿他的作品。
他們不理解的是，每個(gè)獨(dú)特的賴特式設(shè)計(jì)都是根據(jù)建筑工地的地理位置和客戶的特殊要求量身定做的。
賴特本人反對(duì)將標(biāo)準(zhǔn)設(shè)計(jì)或其變體強(qiáng)加于某個(gè)場(chǎng)地中，而不考慮場(chǎng)地本身的決定因素。
The tough part is not design. Design is one of the easiest part to reverse engineer. The toughest part is material. You cannot reverse engineer the material which is used to create the aircraft and it's engine. Material makes the main Difference as wrong material can increase you weight like anything or decrease your strength greatly.
【回復(fù)】困難的部分不是設(shè)計(jì)。設(shè)計(jì)是逆向工程中最容易的部分之一。最難的部分是材料。你無(wú)法對(duì)用來(lái)制造飛機(jī)和其發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)的材料進(jìn)行逆向工程。材料的主要區(qū)別在于，錯(cuò)誤的材料會(huì)增加你的重量或者大大降低你的力量。
The choice of your material impacts your design as well
【回復(fù)】材料的選擇也會(huì)影響你的設(shè)計(jì)
You are right. But most of the times people (even engineering bosses) are under the impression that a component can be designed by just copying the dimensions.
【回復(fù)】你說(shuō)得對(duì)。但大多數(shù)時(shí)候，人們(甚至工程師的老板)的印象是，只要復(fù)制組件的尺寸，就可以設(shè)計(jì)出組件。
Apart from material, manufacturing process plays an important role. Several years are required to establish a manufacturing process.
【回復(fù)】除了材料之外，制造工藝也起著重要作用。建立起制造工藝需要好幾年的時(shí)間。
None of us love China but gotta admit they’re doing a damn good job at brewing their own military equipments at home
【回復(fù)】我們都不喜歡中國(guó)，但不得不承認(rèn)，他們?cè)趪?guó)內(nèi)制造自己的軍事裝備方面，做得非常好。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://nxnpts.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
J-20 looks same as Raptor F22? Either my eyes or your eyes got some problems.
【回復(fù)】J-20看起來(lái)和猛禽F22一樣？不是我的眼睛有問(wèn)題，就是你的眼睛有問(wèn)題。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://nxnpts.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
No one says “J20 looks like Raptor"
【回復(fù)】沒(méi)有人說(shuō)“ J20看起來(lái)像猛禽”
Sir, HAL is privatized and the process of privatization is in progress.
Make in India and Atmanirbhar Yojana will definitely try if the wealth and resources permit.
【回復(fù)】先生，印度航空公司(HAL)已經(jīng)私有化了，而且私有化進(jìn)程也在進(jìn)行中。
如果財(cái)富和資源允許，“印度制造”和“自力更生”肯定會(huì)嘗試。
There is a very long way to reach atmanirbhar. First there is need rewrite the syllabus of engineering and science courses. Then sexting suitable candidates to pursue these courses is more important step to achieve atmanirbhar.
【回復(fù)】離“自力更生”還有很長(zhǎng)的路要走。首先，需要重寫工程和科學(xué)課程的教學(xué)大綱。然后選擇合適的候選人去攻讀這些課程，是實(shí)現(xiàn)“自力更生”的更重要步驟。
Some departments like need to be government owned to ensure sovereignty of the nation. Privatization is not always the answer.
【回復(fù)】有些部門需要政府擁有，以確保國(guó)家的主權(quán)，私有化并不總是解決問(wèn)題的辦法。
HAL will not be privatised it will only cause problems for the iaf and government because government don't pay HAL on time but that will not be possible with a private entity.
【回復(fù)】印度航空公司(HAL)不會(huì)私有化，這只會(huì)給印度空軍和政府帶來(lái)問(wèn)題，因?yàn)檎粫?huì)按時(shí)向HAL付款，但是私營(yíng)實(shí)體不可能這樣做。
China has not invented a single thing after century.
【回復(fù)】一個(gè)世紀(jì)過(guò)去了，中國(guó)沒(méi)有發(fā)明任何東西。
Tik tok
【作者回復(fù)】TikTok
What has India invented?
【回復(fù)】那印度發(fā)明了什么？
Not good to make a joke of our own country and humiliate it. India is not a great player in the field of science and maths, but surely is a good player. You know that India has also played its role in various fields.
【回復(fù)】拿我們自己的國(guó)家開(kāi)玩笑并羞辱它是不好的。印度在科學(xué)和數(shù)學(xué)領(lǐng)域不是很厲害的玩家，但肯定是很好的玩家。你知道，印度也在各個(gè)領(lǐng)域發(fā)揮了自己的作用。
There is absolutely no intention of making a joke of the country's acheivements here. I too am a fruit of the same tree.
Not good? Boss accept the truth.
Without accepting, nothing can be corrected.
If you are not feeling well, you need to be taken to a doctor. If you sit in bed saying that nothing is happening to me,or even if you go to the doctor and say nothing's wrong with me - I am allright, the Doctor isn't gonna be able to help you.
【回復(fù)】我這里絕對(duì)沒(méi)有拿國(guó)家的發(fā)展開(kāi)玩笑的意思。我也是同一棵樹的果實(shí)。
不好？老板需要接受事實(shí)。
不接受，那什么也改變不了。
如果你感覺(jué)不舒服，你就需要去看醫(yī)生。如果你坐在床上說(shuō)“我沒(méi)事”，或者你去看醫(yī)生時(shí)說(shuō)“我沒(méi)事”，那醫(yī)生也幫不了你。
Why not?
Your stupid nationalism is eating this country brick by brick. Why should we shut our mouth about the incompetence of our people.
【回復(fù)】為什么不能說(shuō)呢？
你愚蠢的民族主義正在一點(diǎn)一點(diǎn)地蠶食這個(gè)國(guó)家。我們?yōu)槭裁匆獙?duì)我們?nèi)嗣竦臒o(wú)能閉口不談呢。
Nationalism?? Speaking truth equals nationalism? If that is so, I am okay with that. Meanwhile, India lags not because of incompetence of our people, but because of incompetence of people like you. You practice engineering - you have knowledge, talent, and I guess a good life with opportunities too. Make something na. Invent and discover something. Why blame community as a whole? Learn to take responsibility instead of blaming the country and countrymen. If you can't, then also count yourself incompetent.
And mind you, I am not a stupid. Your ignorance will eat you out because you don't even have a decency to talk with others.
【回復(fù)】民族主義？說(shuō)真話等于民族主義？如果是這樣的話，我可以接受。與此同時(shí)，印度之所以落后，不是因?yàn)槲覀內(nèi)嗣竦臒o(wú)能，而是因?yàn)橄衲銈冞@樣的人民的無(wú)能。你從事工程學(xué)——你有知識(shí)，有才華，我猜你也有充滿機(jī)遇的美好生活。做一些事情。發(fā)明和發(fā)現(xiàn)一些東西。為什么要責(zé)怪整個(gè)社會(huì)呢？學(xué)會(huì)承擔(dān)責(zé)任，而不是責(zé)備國(guó)家和同胞。如果你做不到，那么也可以認(rèn)為自己無(wú)能。
記住，我可不是個(gè)笨蛋。你的無(wú)知會(huì)毀了你，因?yàn)槟氵B與人交談的禮儀都沒(méi)有。
Have you ever heard about Ramanujan. Please read what he faced in this country full of self proud jokers like you. Was he a stupid?
Why there is no world class university in India?
Why there is no focus on RnD in India?
Why our education and healthcare budget is so low?
Have you ever seen the quality of education in the government schools or in village schools?
What do you want from me? Should I rob Swiss bank and allocate additional budget?
By your logic, I should become the PM, and change the policies, unless I should shut up, and keep chanting Incredible India as you guys do.
We are incompetent because people like you don't want to digest the reality. Agreed, just writing here won't change the country. But, keep shouting Incredible India, while ignoring the flaws and third world mindset of people won't help either. It will harm this country to a greater extent.
First step of solving a problem is accepting there is one!!
【回復(fù)】你聽(tīng)說(shuō)過(guò)拉馬努金嗎。請(qǐng)看看他在這個(gè)充滿了像你這樣自以為是的小丑的國(guó)家里，面對(duì)的是什么。他是個(gè)笨蛋嗎？（譯注：拉馬努金，印度歷史上最著名的數(shù)學(xué)家之一。）
為什么印度沒(méi)有世界一流的大學(xué)？
為什么印度不關(guān)注研發(fā)？
為什么我們的教育和醫(yī)療預(yù)算如此之低？
你見(jiàn)過(guò)公立學(xué)?；蜞l(xiāng)村學(xué)校的教育質(zhì)量嗎？
你想從我這里得到什么? 我是否應(yīng)該搶劫瑞士銀行并增加預(yù)算？
按照你的邏輯，我應(yīng)該成為總理，改變政策，除非我閉嘴，不然像你們一樣不停地歌頌“不可思議的印度”。
我們無(wú)能是因?yàn)橄衲氵@樣的人不愿接受現(xiàn)實(shí)。我同意，僅僅在這里寫文字不會(huì)改變這個(gè)國(guó)家。但是，如果繼續(xù)大喊“不可思議的印度”，同時(shí)忽略缺陷和人民的第三世界國(guó)家心態(tài)，也是于事無(wú)補(bǔ)的。這將在更大程度上損害這個(gè)國(guó)家。
解決問(wèn)題的第一步，就是承認(rèn)有這個(gè)問(wèn)題！
“full of self proud jokers like you” - I am an aspirating doctor and I do hardwork in my own way. Should I not take pride in that?
【回復(fù)】“充滿了像你這樣自以為是的小丑”，我是一個(gè)有抱負(fù)的醫(yī)生，我用自己的方式努力工作。我不應(yīng)該為此感到驕傲嗎？
Self proud of being an Indian or being part of some kind of great civilization, that's what I am talking about. Sorry for being demeaning, I just got fed up of such nationalistic comments. Didn't mean to defame or insult you. Let's have a healthy debate.
As you said, earlier, “it's not good to humiliate our country”.But I really think this as a setback. In reality, we should question everything, critucize everything whatever is wrong.
To be 100% frank, I don't understand nationalism. Why should we be proud of a place being born, when we did not even choose it. And I consider nationalism to be the root cause of most of the unnecessary wars, oppression and GENO....s. Nationalism is racism with sugar coating.
【回復(fù)】以作為一個(gè)印度人或者是作為某種偉大文明的一部分而感到自豪，這就是我所說(shuō)的。對(duì)于我的無(wú)禮感到抱歉，我只是受夠了這種民族主義的言論。我不是想詆毀或侮辱你。讓我們進(jìn)行一場(chǎng)健康的辯論。
正如你之前所說(shuō)的，“羞辱我們的國(guó)家是不好的”。但我真的認(rèn)為這是一種阻礙。事實(shí)上，我們應(yīng)該質(zhì)疑一切，批判一切錯(cuò)誤。
坦率地說(shuō)，我不理解民族主義。我們?yōu)槭裁匆獮檎Q生的地方而自豪，我們甚至都沒(méi)有選擇過(guò)。我認(rèn)為民族主義是大部分不必要的戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)、壓迫和種族滅絕的根本原因。民族主義是披著糖衣的種族主義。
Before you start telling me the greatness of this country, let me highlight few points.
We were ruled by a country smaller than Maharashtra!!
Most cutting edge tech is being developed in USA, Europe and China.
We can't make Jet engines. We can't make Silicon chips. We can't even produce good batteries. We struggled to make a proper Fighter jet for decades.
We don't have any truly Indian smartphone company. We don't have any world class tech product such as Windows, SAP, Apple etc.
We get all the APIs from China or other countries for most of the Pharma products.
無(wú)論我們生活在哪個(gè)國(guó)家，無(wú)論我們認(rèn)為哪個(gè)地方是家，每個(gè)人都應(yīng)該有權(quán)利批評(píng)事情(以道德的方式) ，并毫不掩飾地指出錯(cuò)誤的行為、無(wú)能和歷史錯(cuò)誤。
在你開(kāi)始告訴我這個(gè)國(guó)家的偉大之處之前，讓我強(qiáng)調(diào)幾點(diǎn)。
我們被一個(gè)比馬哈拉施特拉邦還小的國(guó)家統(tǒng)治??！
大多數(shù)尖端技術(shù)正在美國(guó)、歐洲和中國(guó)發(fā)展。
我們不能制造噴氣式發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)。我們不能制造硅芯片。我們甚至不能生產(chǎn)好的電池。幾十年來(lái)，我們一直在努力制造一架合格的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
我們沒(méi)有任何真正的印度智能手機(jī)公司。我們沒(méi)有任何世界級(jí)的技術(shù)產(chǎn)品，如 Windows，SAP，蘋果等。
我們的大部分藥品的原料藥都來(lái)自中國(guó)或其他國(guó)家。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://nxnpts.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
Look at the last 30 years. China and India were almost equal, or Indian was a a little ahead in development, in Manufacturing compared to China
Where are we now?
【回復(fù)】看看30年之前。中國(guó)和印度在制造業(yè)方面幾乎是相等的，或者說(shuō)印度在發(fā)展方面略微領(lǐng)先。
現(xiàn)在我們?cè)谀睦铮?/b>
Huwawei was ahead of most US companies in the 5G race. Chinese companies like OnePlus and Xiaomi are literally beating Apple and Samsung by providing 90 percent of their quality at 50–75 percent price. Chinese technology companies are competing with top US companies (MediaTek vs Qualcomn, Alibaba vs Amazon etc), that's not a small feat. China is a technological behemoth. The research happening in top Chinese universities is mind blowing. China has 8 universities in the world's top 50 now. India should try to learn from China.
Yes, if we go by inventions of major things, China clearly lacks there, but it's because all the major things that are common today were invented 30 years ago when China was a poor country. Give them 20 more years and a sizeable chunk of inventions would be comming from China.
【回復(fù)】在5G競(jìng)賽中，華為遙遙領(lǐng)先于大多數(shù)美國(guó)公司。一加和小米等中國(guó)公司以50%至75%的價(jià)格提供了蘋果和三星90%的質(zhì)量，確實(shí)打敗了它們。中國(guó)科技公司正在與美國(guó)頂級(jí)公司競(jìng)爭(zhēng)(聯(lián)發(fā)科 vs 高通、阿里巴巴 vs 亞馬遜等)，這可不是一個(gè)小成就。中國(guó)是一個(gè)科技巨獸。中國(guó)頂尖大學(xué)正在進(jìn)行的研究令人興奮。中國(guó)目前有8所大學(xué)躋身世界前50名。印度應(yīng)該向中國(guó)學(xué)習(xí)。
是的，如果我們從重大發(fā)明的角度來(lái)看，中國(guó)顯然缺乏這些，但這是因?yàn)樗薪裉炱毡榇嬖诘闹卮蟀l(fā)明都是在30年前中國(guó)還是一個(gè)貧窮國(guó)家的時(shí)候發(fā)明的。再給他們20年，相當(dāng)大一部分發(fā)明將會(huì)來(lái)自中國(guó)。
Huwaei use most of components from Germany,Korea,Japan and Xiaomi do the same as for mediatek it is Taiwanese company.
【回復(fù)】華為使用的大部分零部件來(lái)自德國(guó)、韓國(guó)、日本，小米也是一樣，至于聯(lián)發(fā)科，那是一家臺(tái)灣公司。
Who says so? Huawei uses made in China components. In fact even companies like Apple, Samsung, Google, Motorola etc use made in China Processors, RAMs, Memory many times. The toughest thing to make in a phone is a processor. And China makes a significant share of them. Companies like Intel, AMD have Fabrication as well as assembly units in China.
Closest India came to making a chip is single chips made by IIT Bombay and Madras after years of research which are 20 years behind the world.
MediaTek is a Chinese company. They are headquatered in Taiwan. China does this very often, as they face sanctions and negative sentiments they just reroute their goods through Taiwan and Hong Kong. Taiwan is nothing economically without China.
【回復(fù)】誰(shuí)說(shuō)的？華為使用的是中國(guó)制造的零部件。事實(shí)上，甚至像蘋果、三星、谷歌、摩托羅拉等公司都多次使用中國(guó)制造的處理器、 主存和內(nèi)存。手機(jī)中最難制造的東西是處理器。而中國(guó)在其中占有相當(dāng)大的份額。像英特爾，AMD這樣的公司在中國(guó)既有制造部門也有組裝部門。
印度最接近于制造芯片的是印度理工學(xué)院孟買分校和馬德拉斯分校，它們經(jīng)過(guò)多年的研究，比世界落后了20年。
聯(lián)發(fā)科是一家中國(guó)公司。他們的總部設(shè)在臺(tái)灣。中國(guó)經(jīng)常這樣做，當(dāng)他們面臨制裁和抵制情緒時(shí)，他們就通過(guò)臺(tái)灣和香港來(lái)轉(zhuǎn)運(yùn)貨物。沒(méi)有中國(guó)大陸，臺(tái)灣在經(jīng)濟(jì)上一無(wú)是處。
They have. They invent and bring up a lot of things than most western countries. They will continue to do the same in future too, at a bigger pace.
【回復(fù)】他們有。他們發(fā)明和提出了比大多數(shù)西方國(guó)家更多的東西。他們將來(lái)也會(huì)繼續(xù)這樣做，速度會(huì)更快。
I don’t know what people think when they talk about reverse engineering. An aircraft is a complex and advanced piece of engineering. It had not only the mechanical and electronic components but very complex software algorithms running in real time - which keeps it on trajectory and make sure all the safety requirements, which are not only hard to reverse engineer but it needs decades of research to attain an expertise level. But I think India do have potential to develop these R&D facilities. But it all comes down to one thing - education system.
【回復(fù)】我不知道人們?cè)谡務(wù)撃嫦蚬こ痰臅r(shí)候是怎么想的。飛機(jī)是一項(xiàng)復(fù)雜而先進(jìn)的工程。它不僅有機(jī)械和電子部件，還有非常復(fù)雜的軟件算法實(shí)時(shí)運(yùn)行——這使它保持在軌跡上，并確保所有的安全要求，這不僅難以逆向工程，而且需要數(shù)十年的研究才能達(dá)到專業(yè)水平。但我認(rèn)為印度確實(shí)有發(fā)展這些研發(fā)設(shè)施的潛力。但這一切都?xì)w結(jié)于一件事——教育體系。
原創(chuàng)翻譯：龍騰網(wǎng) http://nxnpts.cn 轉(zhuǎn)載請(qǐng)注明出處
China can measure, weigh the components, make schematic drawings, etc but to get the metallurgy mixture of alloys just right would make reverse engineering impossible.
If it was easy they could already be making aircraft engines on par with the Russian engines.
【回復(fù)】中國(guó)可以測(cè)量、稱量部件、繪制原理圖等等，但要得到合適的合金冶金混合物，就不可能進(jìn)行逆向工程。
如果這很容易的話，他們已經(jīng)可以制造出與俄羅斯發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)相當(dāng)?shù)娘w機(jī)發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)了。
All nation surely have better weapons than the known weapon in world. Most of the technologies we use in commercial is 20 to 50 years old. So don’t be worried, the only reason India not making better fighter is Politics. Political alliance is more important than weapons.
【回復(fù)】所有國(guó)家肯定都有比世界上已知的武器更好的武器。我們?cè)谏虡I(yè)上使用的大多數(shù)技術(shù)都是20年到50年前的。所以不用擔(dān)心，印度沒(méi)有制造出更好的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)的唯一原因是政治。政治聯(lián)盟比武器更重要。
It is better to improve Tejas rather than copying Rafale.
【回復(fù)】最好是改進(jìn)光輝戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)，而不是抄襲陣風(fēng)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)。
Further you cannot reverse engineer the software part of it. Where will you get the code? In Adavnced fighter aircrafts, software is as important as hardware.
【回復(fù)】此外，你不能對(duì)其中的軟件部分進(jìn)行逆向工程。你要從哪里得到代碼？在先進(jìn)的戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)中，軟件和硬件同樣重要。
Sir, the Chinese have reverse engineered several Russian aircraft(most notable, Mig 21 —J-7)
【回復(fù)】先生，中國(guó)人已經(jīng)逆向了幾架俄羅斯飛機(jī)(最有名的是米格21—J-7)
Just because India is incapable of producing high technology products, many people in India like to think that China must have copied from somewhere. It is the same thing that happens when our friend comes first in the class, we like to think he must surely have taken the help of the class teacher.
【回復(fù)】只是因?yàn)橛《葲](méi)有能力生產(chǎn)高科技產(chǎn)品，很多印度人就喜歡認(rèn)為中國(guó)一定是從某個(gè)地方抄襲過(guò)來(lái)的。當(dāng)我們的朋友在班上排名第一的時(shí)候，這是一樣的事情，我們認(rèn)為他一定是得到了班主任的幫助。
Ajoy Roy former Associate Director at Intercontinental Consultants and Technocrats (1996-2006)
Reverse engineering is a complicated affair. Yes you can copy the shape and internals. While that is very easily done with simple obxts - toys, clothes and some appliances, there are a host of other issues involved when you attempt to copy advanced and complicated obxts.
* Advanced machinery uses advanced materials. You can copy the shape, but what about materials. For that you need a whole infrastructure and design capability.
* Advanced machinery required advanced manufacturing. That involves both machine tools and assembly procedures.
Both the above require your own expertise that comes with R&D and practice, and that takes a lot of effort (both monitory and personnel) as well as time. This is some thing no amount of copying will give you.
【回答】前洲際顧問(wèn)及技術(shù)專家助理總監(jiān)(1996年-2006年)
逆向工程是一件復(fù)雜的事情。是的，你可以復(fù)制形狀和內(nèi)部構(gòu)件。雖然簡(jiǎn)單的東西——玩具、衣服和一些器具，很容易做到，但當(dāng)你試圖復(fù)制高級(jí)和復(fù)雜的東西時(shí)，還涉及到許多其他問(wèn)題。
* 先進(jìn)的機(jī)器需要先進(jìn)的材料。你可以復(fù)制形狀，但是材料呢。為此，你需要完整的基礎(chǔ)設(shè)施和設(shè)計(jì)能力。
* 先進(jìn)的機(jī)器需要先進(jìn)的制造技術(shù)，包括機(jī)床和裝配程序。
上述兩點(diǎn)都需要你自己的專業(yè)知識(shí)，這些專業(yè)知識(shí)來(lái)自于研發(fā)和實(shí)踐，這需要大量的努力(包括監(jiān)督和人員)以及時(shí)間。這是你再怎么復(fù)制，也不會(huì)得到的東西。
a) India use Russian tanks. The treads are imported from Russia. Why? Because as yet India has not been able to manufacture steel of that particular quality. Indian tank treads last less than half that of Russian treads.
b) Jet engines (and power turbines) use turbine blades. These are now a days made of special ceramic/steel composite and require advanced manufacturing techniques. Very few companies have mastered the design and manufacture of turbine blades.
So yes we can reverse engineer fighter aircraft, but only when we can manufacture critical components to that standard on our own, but then you will not need to reverse engineer, just design and build your own.
例如：
a)印度使用俄羅斯坦克。履帶是從俄羅斯進(jìn)口的。為什么？因?yàn)榈侥壳盀橹?，印度還沒(méi)有能力生產(chǎn)這種特殊質(zhì)量的鋼材。印度坦克履帶的壽命不到俄羅斯履帶的一半。
b)噴氣式發(fā)動(dòng)機(jī)(和動(dòng)力渦輪機(jī))使用渦輪葉片。現(xiàn)在這些都是由特殊的陶瓷/鋼復(fù)合材料制成的，需要先進(jìn)的制造技術(shù)。很少有公司掌握渦輪葉片的設(shè)計(jì)和制造。
所以，是的，我們可以對(duì)戰(zhàn)斗機(jī)進(jìn)行逆向工程，但只有當(dāng)我們自己能夠制造出符合這個(gè)標(biāo)準(zhǔn)的關(guān)鍵部件時(shí)，你才不需要進(jìn)行逆向工程，只需要自己設(shè)計(jì)和制造。