歷史上最有影響力的人

TAS-Throwaway
He put Michaelangelo in the book, but left out Fritz Harber, without whose fermentation process the world's population would have stayed at 2 billion.
That's a red flag. When the figures who obscurely prevent billions of deaths are left out, the book veers into pop-history.
Norman Borlaug absolutely should be on this list too, a top 10 IMO.
10 Einstein
No way. Not to take away from Einstein, but other physicists were getting close to his discoveries too. However, Euler should be in the top 10 IMO and Gauss should be in the top 100- their theories were more revolutionary for the time period they lived in where as Einstein's would have been cracked within 10 years of his life, tops. Newton is properly placed IMO.
One more slight nitpick, St. Paul should be above Jesus.

“作者納入了米開(kāi)朗基洛，卻沒(méi)有……”
這是個(gè)預(yù)警。當(dāng)那些默默無(wú)聞地阻止了數(shù)十億人死亡的人物被遺漏時(shí)，這本書就成了野史。
在我看來(lái)，諾曼·博洛格【美國(guó)農(nóng)業(yè)科學(xué)家、植物病理學(xué)家、遺傳育種專家】絕對(duì)也應(yīng)該在這個(gè)名單上，排前十名。
“10、愛(ài)因斯坦”
不同意。我并不是要把愛(ài)因斯坦排除，但其他物理學(xué)家的成就也接近他的發(fā)現(xiàn)。然而，在我看來(lái)，歐拉應(yīng)該在前10名，高斯應(yīng)該在前100名，他們的理論在他們所處的時(shí)代更具革命性，而愛(ài)因斯坦的理論在他還活著的10年里就被打破了。我覺(jué)得牛頓的位置很合適。
還有一點(diǎn)小瑕疵，圣保羅應(yīng)該在耶穌之上。

TheGreatOneSea
You can't really rank people as just "influential": there's too many diffrent circumstances over too wide a time.
Like, do we credit George Washington with everything the US has done simply because he was so heavily involved in how the US started? Do we really count the famous scientists, while ignoring the obscure ones that made their discoveries possible?
Any list just seems too arbitrary.

你無(wú)法根據(jù)“影響力”切實(shí)的將人物排名：在漫長(zhǎng)的時(shí)間里，有太多不同的情況。
比如，我們能否僅僅因?yàn)閱讨稳A盛頓深入的參與了美國(guó)的建立，就把美國(guó)所做的一切歸功于他？我們真的要算上那些著名的科學(xué)家，而忽略那些使他們的發(fā)現(xiàn)成為可能的、默默無(wú)聞的人嗎？
任何排名都顯得太武斷了。

bigdon802
Well, I'd take out Princip. If I had to choose anyone from that event, it would probably be Ferdinand. He was the most important actor in that moment, even if his act was dying.
I'd also remove Columbus, since someone would have done it eventually. Probably pretty soon.
And I'd remove Napoleon, as the events that lead to his rise to power were arguably more world shattering than his incredible career.

我會(huì)排除普林西普。如果我必須從那次事件中選一個(gè)人，那可能是費(fèi)迪南德。他是那一刻最重要的演員，哪怕他的戲即將結(jié)束。
我還會(huì)刪除哥倫布，因?yàn)樽罱K會(huì)有人這么做的，可能還很快。
還有刪除拿破侖，因?yàn)閷?dǎo)致他上臺(tái)的事件，比他那不可思議的生涯對(duì)世界造成的影響還要大。

Tsaibatsu
I'd also remove Columbus, since someone would have done it eventually. Probably pretty soon.
wait why

“我還會(huì)刪除哥倫布……”
等等，為什么？

bigdon802
Because if you remove his existence, history doesn't significantly change. Instruments and vessels were getting better and navigators were getting more daring. It was going to happen. If the first settlers cross in 1527 instead you'd still have a very similar outcome. Especially if Spain just paid a different guy to do it.

因?yàn)槿绻銊h除他的存在，歷史也不會(huì)發(fā)生重大改變。儀器和船只在變得越來(lái)越好，航海者也變得越來(lái)越勇敢。這是必然會(huì)發(fā)生的事。如果第一批人等到1527年再航行，結(jié)果還是差不多的。如果西班牙付錢讓另一個(gè)人去做的話尤其如此。

Indiana_Jawnz
Only not at all, there is no guarantee it would have been discovered reasonably soon or by the Spanish.
A difference of 30 years and a different national makes all the difference in the historical impact.
If the date of discovery was in 1545 by a Dutch navigator landing in Cuba, followed by Spain staking claim in New York in 1560 would completely alter the way North and South America developed.

改變一點(diǎn)也不小，你無(wú)法保證它會(huì)很快被發(fā)現(xiàn)，或者是由西班牙人發(fā)現(xiàn)。
30年的差別和發(fā)現(xiàn)國(guó)家的差別，會(huì)讓歷史的影響面目全非。
如果發(fā)現(xiàn)的日期是1545年，一名荷蘭航海者登陸古巴，接著1560年西班牙在紐約宣稱主權(quán)，就會(huì)徹底改變南北美洲的發(fā)展道路。

shantipole
World War 1 was just round N+1 of the endless European wars that have been going on for centuries. The nameless guy (Princip) who killed a semi-major nobleman (Ferdinand) whose death caused another couple of guys to stumble into a war (Kaiser Wilhelm, Tsar Nicholas, etc) really doesn't deserve the #2 spot.

第一次世界大戰(zhàn)不過(guò)是幾個(gè)世紀(jì)以來(lái)歐洲無(wú)休止戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)中的第N+1輪罷了。一個(gè)無(wú)名小卒(普林西普)殺死了一個(gè)不那么重要的貴族（費(fèi)迪南德），后者的死導(dǎo)致另外兩個(gè)家伙陷入戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)(威廉二世，沙皇尼古拉斯)，這樣的人確實(shí)沒(méi)有資格排第二名。

TheFaendal
This is an interesting post. Thanks for sharing. However, I would take issue with the idea that how many categories a person can fall into determines how influential they are in world history. If a person is influential in only 1 or 2 categories, they can still have theoretically influenced the world more than anyone else.
Regarding the founder of Christianity, whoever it is (I argue it is Jesus, but substitute Paul if you wish) is at least #2 If not #1 most influential. The religion’s impact on the Roman Empire culturally, politically, socially, militarily, and on and on was immense. As a result, the religion became the largest in the world.
While the world’s future does not seem to be set for as much religious influence as our past, the fact remains that religion altered the human experience up to this point more than anything else.

這是個(gè)有趣的帖子。感謝分享。然而，對(duì)于把一個(gè)人劃分成多少個(gè)類別來(lái)判斷他在歷史上有多少影響力這種觀點(diǎn)，我是不認(rèn)同的。一個(gè)人只在1或2個(gè)類別里有影響力，但在理論上，他們對(duì)世界的影響力仍然可能比所有人都大。
關(guān)于基督教的創(chuàng)立者，不管他是誰(shuí)(我認(rèn)為是耶穌，但如果你愿意，也可以認(rèn)為是圣保羅），他的影響力至少排在第二位。宗教對(duì)羅馬帝國(guó)的文化、政治、社會(huì)、軍事等方面的影響是巨大的。因此，宗教是世界上影響力最大的。
雖然世界的未來(lái)受到宗教的影響不會(huì)像過(guò)去那樣大了，但事實(shí)不可否認(rèn)，到目前為止，宗教對(duì)人類經(jīng)驗(yàn)造成的影響比其他東西都要大。

TitanCrius
I guess it all depends how you define influential. I'd argue that the top figures on the list ought to be the founding figures of all the world's various religions because a lot of history has been set in motion, at least partially, due to religious influence. So many wars have been fought in the name of one religion or another, such as the Crusades to the Holy Land. So many empires have grown out of efforts to spread various religions, such as Muhammad's Caliphate. Religions have influenced so much of daily life, such as the existence of a weekend starting out as the Babylonians designating one day in every seven as time to spend worshipping the gods (or the Jewish sabbath, if you prefer to think of that idea as the original, the exact origin is unclear) as well as countless traditions around food, clothing, lifetime milestones and so on.

我認(rèn)為這完全取決于你如何定義影響力。在我看來(lái)，名單上排第一的人物應(yīng)該是各種宗教的創(chuàng)始人，因?yàn)楹芏鄽v史都是由宗教的影響引發(fā)的，至少部分是這樣。有很多戰(zhàn)爭(zhēng)是在各種各樣宗教名義下爆發(fā)的，比如十字軍東征。有很多帝國(guó)是在努力傳播各種宗教之下發(fā)展起來(lái)的，比如穆罕默德的哈里發(fā)。宗教對(duì)日常生活的影響非常大，比如巴比倫人每七天就指定周末后的第一天作為祭拜神的日子，以及無(wú)數(shù)關(guān)于食物、衣服、人生里程碑等的傳統(tǒng)。

sitquiet-donothing
Influence is the key word. Did the person create an ideology? Religious reformers and founders, philosophers, and movement style politicians are the first rung, then folks who laid the path for a discipline like Newton, Freud, or Harvey, and either just above or below this tier the artists who laid out the rules sets like Beethoven, Raphael, and Montaigne. The thing is that they have to have a movement, ideology, or process that is taken as an assumption to be considered influential. So many important people don't have this and people get confused.

關(guān)鍵詞是影響力。是創(chuàng)造了一種意識(shí)形態(tài)的人？是把宗教改革家和創(chuàng)始人、哲學(xué)家和運(yùn)動(dòng)派政治家排做第一梯隊(duì)，然后是為牛頓、弗洛伊德或哈維等為學(xué)科鋪平道路的人，再之后是如貝多芬、拉斐爾和蒙泰涅這樣制定規(guī)則的藝術(shù)家？問(wèn)題是，他們必須有一場(chǎng)運(yùn)動(dòng)、意識(shí)形態(tài)或過(guò)程，來(lái)讓他們成為有影響力的人。有很多重要的人物都沒(méi)有這些，所以會(huì)讓大家感到困惑。

sitquiet-donothing
As far as the rankings go, "influence" is a tough one to nail down. But I don't hear many people before now saying anything like "Thank goodness for Brahmagupta and that 0!" While definitely important, influence isn't there. Influence is a purely psychological situation, IMO. It requires someone to acknowledge it for it to mean anything. Therefore, someone like Muhammad who is mentioned for all sorts of undertakings is influential, while someone who prevents calamity but is unknown as a reason for action is not influential, that does not diminish their importance one bit. It does however mean that they are not influential. I have read the book, IMO it suffers from a lack of translated sources and skews heavily western, however when someone like Beethoven, these days, is being reproduced the best by Chinese musicians, I can understand why.

想要給“影響力”排名是很難的。但在以前，我沒(méi)聽(tīng)過(guò)有什么人說(shuō)“感謝Brahmagupta和他的0！”。雖然這非常重要，但影響力并不大。在我看來(lái)，影響力是一種純粹的心理狀態(tài)，它需要有人承認(rèn)才有意義。因此，像穆罕默德這樣因各種事業(yè)而被提及的人是有影響力的，而那些阻止了災(zāi)禍卻不為人知的人是沒(méi)有影響力的，但這絲毫也沒(méi)有降低他們的重要性，然而，這確實(shí)意味著他們沒(méi)有影響力。這本書我看過(guò)，在我看來(lái)，它缺乏翻譯來(lái)源，嚴(yán)重偏向西方，然而，當(dāng)貝多芬這樣的人被中國(guó)音樂(lè)家復(fù)現(xiàn)得最像時(shí)，我知道理由了。

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